EM-10 in my hands

Turntables, tuners, open-reel & cassette recorders etc

EM-10 in my hands

Postby soundofvoid » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:55 am

At the last day of 2012 i received a pristine example of the EM-10 transport (stand alone motor/platter).
It was bought from Japan on a heartbeat (my credit card suffered) as i was searching for it for the last 2.5 years.
It arrived in two boxes and is in an excellent condition.
The TVK files say that it's a different motor from the one used in P-3 but my examination of it's construction
and certain posts of Japanese users of both (who are not afraid to open and investigate) prove otherwise.
I opened it up to see the details of it's innards and i am very impressed.
The seller was saying that there was a periodical hissing noise and speed inconsistency which prooved to be
a partially sagging bitoumine piece rubbing against the motor cover...kid's stuff to repair although i am not keeping the bitoumine!
Certain things can be improved of course and after taking it completely apart i have already a plan.
Anyone has a service manual of the P-3 or P-10 or EM-10 or knows where to get one?
The Pioneer headquarters in Japan were very helpfull with sending me a schematic for the PL-L1(in perfect Japanese of course)
but if anyone has it, it would save me the trouble of getting in touch with them again.
By the way...the ongoing story is described in the greek http://www.purediy.gr site in this thread
http://www.purediy.gr/forum/index.php?topic=1546.0
with lots of pictures...which you may have to register yourselves as members to see them.
The google translation from greek may produce some times hillarius or puzzling moments
but you will get the general idea.
My aim is to superstucture it, as a standalone unit, put it in a heavy base/plinth and maybe combine it with a Pioneer PL-L1 tangential tacking arm...
I will be making a sandwich type (3 layers) heavier platter probably doubling the original mass,
but using magnetic repulsion to ease the load on the spindle ball/thrust plate to the point it feels much less than the original
7050 grams of the combined mass of mat/platter/subplatter...thus reducing friction and improving all parameters of rotation stability.
Wow&flutter,rumble noise,RFI/EMI rejection and vibration dissipation will be addressed too.
It will be a nice year...
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby theophile » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:49 am

A wonderful starting point for a new venture. I can't wait to see what you do with it. :)
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Phono - Moon LP 5.3
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby soundofvoid » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:17 am

How are you my friend?Nice to hear from you again!
At the moment i have custom neodymium ring magnets on order that will be able to reduce the weight imprint of the platter to a mere 2-2.5 kilos.
They were dispatched from the factory but are in transit in Frankfurt for a week...
The platter design has been finalized.
It's a quadruple layer (soft rubber/aluminum/mu metal/bronze) held together with glue and inox steel inserts.
Along with the VERY HEAVY subplatter i am aiming for a final weight of rotating masses of 13-13.5Kgs.
On top there will be a custom periphery ring that will cover the whole side of the platter and a substantial record weight.
I will try to keep it under 15-15.5 kilos.
If this thing happens the way i expect it, i may release it as kit for upgading all P-3s, P-10s and EM-10s.
I have ordered five pair of magnets...so four more will be easy to make.
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby theophile » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:12 pm

soundofvoid wrote:How are you my friend?Nice to hear from you again!
At the moment i have custom neodymium ring magnets on order that will be able to reduce the weight imprint of the platter to a mere 2-2.5 kilos.
They were dispatched from the factory but are in transit in Frankfurt for a week...
The platter design has been finalized.
It's a quadruple layer (soft rubber/aluminum/mu metal/bronze) held together with glue and inox steel inserts.
Along with the VERY HEAVY subplatter i am aiming for a final weight of rotating masses of 13-13.5Kgs.
On top there will be a custom periphery ring that will cover the whole side of the platter and a substantial record weight.
I will try to keep it under 15-15.5 kilos.
If this thing happens the way i expect it, i may release it as kit for upgading all P-3s, P-10s and EM-10s.
I have ordered five pair of magnets...so four more will be easy to make.

A pleasure to see you posting also.

All very interesting and thought provoking.

As you have done with your other projects, are you planning on photographically documenting the stages?
TT - Yamaha GT 2000
Cart - Soundsmith 'The Voice' Ebony
Phono - Moon LP 5.3
Pre - Hornshoppe The Truth
KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
theophile
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby soundofvoid » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:57 pm

I have already photographed everything from the day i opened the box from Tokyo.
I plan to to do so in every step of the (long) way.
It will be a long thread (when it's finished) and i will post it in the usual sites.
Do you remember from the time of our talks, about mixing the PL-L1 with a Denon DP-80?
You made me think about what i could use from the Pioneer arsenal (so it would be a "all Pioneer" hall of fame combo)
and the compact EM-10 transport was the best candidate.
I knew about it, but it was as rare as hens teeth.Various P-10s and P-3s surfaced but i wasn't going to pay the 2000-4000 euros asking price,
plus the freight money and tax for these 30+ and 45+ kilos behemoths,just for stripping the motor and selling the rest (to whom?). Huge waist of money!
So when this perfect example of the EM-10 came up it was do or die...
The Dp-80 still has a better original platter but the slottless/coreless motor of the EM-10 strikes me as a more elegant solution.
Plus it will be an all "magnetic" turntable...Magnets for rotating,magnets for lifting the platter up,magnets for tangential arm traveling...
A concept table... if i ever make it work!
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby Axel » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:24 pm

soundofvoid wrote:A concept table... if i ever make it work!


And if you don't, do I inherit from the L1 ?
;-)
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby theophile » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:51 pm

soundofvoid wrote:I have already photographed everything from the day i opened the box from Tokyo.
I plan to to do so in every step of the (long) way.
It will be a long thread (when it's finished) and i will post it in the usual sites.
Do you remember from the time of our talks, about mixing the PL-L1 with a Denon DP-80?
You made me think about what i could use from the Pioneer arsenal (so it would be a "all Pioneer" hall of fame combo)
and the compact EM-10 transport was the best candidate.
I knew about it, but it was as rare as hens teeth.Various P-10s and P-3s surfaced but i wasn't going to pay the 2000-4000 euros asking price,
plus the freight money and tax for these 30+ and 45+ kilos behemoths,just for stripping the motor and selling the rest (to whom?). Huge waist of money!
So when this perfect example of the EM-10 came up it was do or die...
The Dp-80 still has a better original platter but the slottless/coreless motor of the EM-10 strikes me as a more elegant solution.
Plus it will be an all "magnetic" turntable...Magnets for rotating,magnets for lifting the platter up,magnets for tangential arm traveling...
A concept table... if i ever make it work!


With a Direct Drive turntable there is much more than the motor, but the motor is the rock upon which all the other elements rest. Denon makes great motors and their best is worth taking note of, but the Stable Hanging Rotor of Exclusive brand is a very elegant design. I like its design on a design level. The great sound quality is the icing and the cherry on the cake combined.

These great Direct Drive Motors (include the motor electronics in this term)are better than the turntables they are used within. Rigorous vertical and horizontal isolation and plinth damping/ motor vibration sinking reveal a great DD motor to be remarkably quiet and revelatory. I'd rate the EM-10 as a wonderful starting platform for new thinking based upon a very high quality Direct Drive unit. My own thoughts are that without the isolation efforts many are confusing the sounds of environmental vibration 'pollution' with the signature of Direct Drives. Take away the environmental vibrational 'mud' and hear the purity of high quality Direct Drive. It can be an extremely high quality music reproduction experience and astonishing to one who might otherwise dismiss Direct Drive as beneath consideration.
TT - Yamaha GT 2000
Cart - Soundsmith 'The Voice' Ebony
Phono - Moon LP 5.3
Pre - Hornshoppe The Truth
KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby soundofvoid » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:35 pm

My thoughts exactly.
And i am very suspicious of this -90's to 010's- trend of discarding the DD motors as an inferior design because i suspect that many of the so called "high end"
turntable firms of the era lacked the expertise and resources to make a really great dd motor.
It was much easier for them to take small "off the shelf" motors to move big platters with belts.
One thing that the big players of that DD era didn't do very well (except of very few models-very expensive-probably very Japanese only, and very rare to really make significant impact)
is to employ these great DDs in really great chassis with all the stops pulled regarding isolation,damping,material selection and looks.
I aim to remedy this.
I recently sold one of my DP-80's to a guy who was a Garrard devotee but made the mistake of paying a visit to the house of one of my custom DP-80's owner.
He went again the same week with his pimped Garrard for a shootout between the two.
You can imagine the result...
He didn't even negotiate for a better price.
My easiest sale ever!
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Re: EM-10 in my hands

Postby soundofvoid » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Axel wrote:
soundofvoid wrote:A concept table... if i ever make it work!


And if you don't, do I inherit from the L1 ?
;-)

Yes yes yes...if i can't make it work you will have first bid on the PL-L1.
Jesus!
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