Sony CDP-R1

The first R1 unit to be launched, the CDP-R1 drive was magnificently designed and luxurious in every way : Sony put all its know how about surface, color, finish, and feel to make one of the best CD player ever, one of the most beautiful, too, and probably the better remembered as well.

Introduced when CD was only four years old the CDP-R1 and DAS-R1 immediately became real bestsellers. This was the reference combo in Japan for many years and Sony sold many of them : not only because of said looks and feel of use but because of the sound of the R1 combo.

Although available separately, speaking of the CDP-R1 without its DAS-R1 is difficult - even if quite interesting : Sony didn't go for its own CX chips but for two of Philips' own TDA-1541 S1 !


Outputs rely either on a 75 Ohm coaxial or a the intelligent (but proprietary) Twin Link connection which carries signal and servo/synchro signals separately and in a bi-directional way. Professional background oblige, Sony was among the first (if not the first) to go that route - many others followed soon afterward.

As humans naturally go, it is difficult to "judge" the "sound" of a drive but, at least mechanically, the CDP-R1 drive was and still is one of the best, like all the integrated players which used the same base, whether Sony's own or the various players/drives from Accuphase.

Reliabilty-wise, only the old Philips CDM1 through CDM-4MD can claim a longer lifetime. But my own CDP-R1 still runs on its original 1987 laser : that's twenty-three years of service ! High-end like that they don't make anymore.

The production run is unknown but there must have been about 1500 combos (CDP + DAS-R1) made.


Updated in 1989 as CDP-R1a with mainly mechanical refinements, a slightly altered design (less well balanced) and a change of mechanism equivalent to that of the contemporary CDP-R3 ; the CDP-R1a didn't sell nearly as well as the original CDP-R1.

As all of Sony's top components since 1965 and the first ES series, the Sony name isn't printed but engraved in the 7mm extruded aluminium front plates.

Sound-wise, in all fairness, the CDP-R1 paired with the DAS-R1 still sounds unbelievably wide, deep, smooth, lush, sweet, dynamic and inviting. And, over the regular 75 Ohm coaxial connection, the Twin Link system does give even more of the above qualities.

• SONY CDP-R1a & DAS-R1a                             (15)last updated by mpd - 16/07/2011, 17H50 Open this topic in TVK Talk
  • #1
    
    mpd
    27/09/10
    18H57
    Hi All,
    
    Well it's landed....A mint condition low use SONY CDP-R1a & DAS-R1a
    
    after a few delays on the dispatch front, will be hooking it up tonight and doing the A/B comparison against the CDP R3. 
    
    
    
    Mark
  • #2
    
    mpd
    01/10/10
    12H50
    Well after few days of listening I can report that the Sony CDP R1a and DAS R1a is simply sublime. It is better than the CDP R3 but in ways where the music tone is more full and rich. The detail is amazing but I am not saying sparking top end SACD detail or like many modern CD players available now that seem slanted in this direction.
    
    Have been spinning Bach Brandenburg Concertos by Karajan & Berlin Philharmoiker and Bernstien's Malher 5 Symphony by Deutsche Grammophon. The strings are so life like and hearing more the technique of the musicians playing is a fantastic revelation.
    
    Even Modern music like Dido's 'life for rent' the vocals are more present than the R3.
    Jazz has that depth and body between the Bass and drums giving a great platform for Mile Davis trumpet solo on 'Kind of Blue'. I m really talking about separation of the instruments is it strength.
    
    Owning this reference combo is a joy to use and I can only highly recommend it if you take the plunge. A good friend who owns a Sony SCD 1 came round and we ended up listening to some music over a glass of wine! He remarked in his own words that it outperforms the SCD 1 CD playback and has a character all of its own.
    
    The combo really requires good speaker cables, interconnects which is why I think I may need to upgrade from Chorus 2 and Epic speaker cables. TOSLINK is a must.
    
    So to end this mini review I still recommend the R3 as that first step into the world of Sony reference players but the combo R1a and DAS 1a is the ultimate. The difference in wine terms is first(Combo) and second(R3) growths, Bordeaux of course.
    
    I may look out for a DAS 1 with the S1 chips as Axel has, what does everyone think?
    
    Still looking for some amplifier advice as I am currently running the super TA F808es.
  • #3
    
    Axel
    01/10/10
    14H26
    Mark,
    
    Still not surprising
    
    The bi-directional Twin-Link does make the overall rendition much more coherent and properly "timed". Over a regular TOS(hiba) it is normal, but it does so over the 75 Ohm coaxial as well which would prove that two-way clocking is one of the crucial key.
    
    Keep the SOC-10 Twin Link cable safe - it would be difficult to find as spare part !
    
    The original DAS-R1 and its dual Philips TDA1541A S1 should make for a very different sound perspective : "old" 16bit vs. 1bit PULSE/SENSE/45bit NS...
  • #4
    
    mpd
    01/10/10
    16H25
    Thanks Axel, Yes the twin-link clock definitely has something to do with the reproduction of the sound.
    
    I remember reading an article from Gramphone.net that there was not much difference between the R1/DAS1 and the R1a/DAS 1a and proved to be a useless exercise trying to find any. But I can't comment.
    
    Managed also to get a 'NEW in a sealed box' spare KSS 151A on its way to me as I type, this was expensive!
    
    This combo is an original UK version, have the instructions, remote and original boxes.....one careful owner who went SACD and not used them since 2002!
    
    Pictures to follow soon.
  • #5
    
    Stoffie
    01/10/10
    23H32
    Great to hear you are enjoying it so much. Looking forward to the pictures!
    
    I think it will probably remain a dream for me to ever own this luscious combo. Still not exactly affordable stuff, even after all these years.
    
    I've been listening to an SCD-555ES (with Tentlabs mods) for the past year and a half or so, and while I enjoy its sound, I do feel a craving for the CDP-X777ES again, both in terms of sound and operation.
    
    How do you feel the CDP-R3 compares to a CDP-X777ES ?
  • #6
    
    mpd
    02/10/10
    10H29
    Thanks Stoffie,
    
    I am not sure how the x777es sounds Axel has a better opinion on this.....although I owned a x779 and that was very good so I guess its almost the same...On the combo R1a/DAS1a it took me three months to persuade the owner to sell it....even though he didn't use it!
  • #7
    
    mpd
    02/10/10
    10H32
    and the CDP R3 is head and shoulders above the x779es if that helps.....
  • #8
    
    mpd
    03/10/10
    17H26
    Some pictures from my rack.....
    
    r1a_1
    
    r1a_3
    
    r1a_2
  • #9
    
    Rare_Hifi
    01/12/10
    13H30
    Mark,
    
    I completely missed this thread. Congratulations on this purchase, a really beautiful find. How does the performance compare to any other players you have owned besides the R3?
    
    I think that an investment in this combination will really pay off over time. When you compare it to modern players there really is little difference and the Sony cd/dac is still up there with the best of the best....I think some people are slowly realising that they have been had in modern audio.
    
    Ritchie
  • #10
    
    Sergey1977
    01/12/10
    16H07

    mpd wrote:Well after few days of listening I can report that the Sony CDP R1a and DAS R1a is simply sublime. It is better than the CDP R3 but in ways where the music tone is more full and rich. The detail is amazing but I am not saying sparking top end SACD detail or like many modern CD players available now that seem slanted in this direction.
    
    Have been spinning Bach Brandenburg Concertos by Karajan & Berlin Philharmoiker and Bernstien's Malher 5 Symphony by Deutsche Grammophon. The strings are so life like and hearing more the technique of the musicians playing is a fantastic revelation.
    
    Even Modern music like Dido's 'life for rent' the vocals are more present than the R3.
    Jazz has that depth and body between the Bass and drums giving a great platform for Mile Davis trumpet solo on 'Kind of Blue'. I m really talking about separation of the instruments is it strength.
    
    Owning this reference combo is a joy to use and I can only highly recommend it if you take the plunge. A good friend who owns a Sony SCD 1 came round and we ended up listening to some music over a glass of wine! He remarked in his own words that it outperforms the SCD 1 CD playback and has a character all of its own.
    
    The combo really requires good speaker cables, interconnects which is why I think I may need to upgrade from Chorus 2 and Epic speaker cables. TOSLINK is a must.
    
    So to end this mini review I still recommend the R3 as that first step into the world of Sony reference players but the combo R1a and DAS 1a is the ultimate. The difference in wine terms is first(Combo) and second(R3) growths, Bordeaux of course.
    
    I may look out for a DAS 1 with the S1 chips as Axel has, what does everyone think?
    
    Still looking for some amplifier advice as I am currently running the super TA F808es.

    
    
    
    Gonfratulations, very nice combo.
    
    Let me help you a little bit with your new amps choice.
    
    As you have purchsed the combo 1a you should get the new amp to benefit from the sound quality 100%.
    
    In my opinion you should go for the amps with XLR balanced inputs hich provides the shortest direct path for signal from D/A section to amplification. Your current amp TA-F808ES does not have XLRs. My proposition is to try Sony TA-FA7ES, TA-FA777ES as well as TA-E90ES/TA-N90ES. Also these amps sounds much better than your current TA-F808ES.
    However, it is quit difficult to recommend on which amp suits you because I have no idea about your speakers.
    
    Of course, to buy the match series you can go for TA-E1/TA-N1. But on my point of view these combo does not provide very good value/for money being overevaluated.
    
    Also you ca have a look at another producers like Pioneer Exclusive. Beautiful amp is Pioneer A-09: Pure class A amplification, golden connectors and, of course, XLR inputs. You will not be dissapointed with this amp which could be compared to a good tube amp in sound section.
    
    If you decide to sell your TA-F808ES please do not hesitate to contact me.
    
    Regards
  • #11
    
    mpd
    01/12/10
    20H15

    Rare_Hifi wrote:Mark,
    
    I completely missed this thread. Congratulations on this purchase, a really beautiful find. How does the performance compare to any other players you have owned besides the R3?
    
    I think that an investment in this combination will really pay off over time. When you compare it to modern players there really is little difference and the Sony cd/dac is still up there with the best of the best....I think some people are slowly realising that they have been had in modern audio.
    
    Ritchie

    
    
    Thanks Ritchie, its a great combo - well it is head and shoulders above the cdp x779es and x707es, haven't tried anything else except SONY (Axel and me have something in common we like sony CD players ) main reason for going backwards or forwards is that most of the media has always been CD, like SACD alot but not enough titles. This combo still delivers would like to head to head with the CDP R1/DAS R1. Looking for a good R10 combo the hunt is on....
  • #12
    
    mpd
    01/12/10
    20H25

    Sergey1977 wrote:

    mpd wrote:Well after few days of listening I can report that the Sony CDP R1a and DAS R1a is simply sublime. It is better than the CDP R3 but in ways where the music tone is more full and rich. The detail is amazing but I am not saying sparking top end SACD detail or like many modern CD players available now that seem slanted in this direction.
    
    Have been spinning Bach Brandenburg Concertos by Karajan & Berlin Philharmoiker and Bernstien's Malher 5 Symphony by Deutsche Grammophon. The strings are so life like and hearing more the technique of the musicians playing is a fantastic revelation.
    
    Even Modern music like Dido's 'life for rent' the vocals are more present than the R3.
    Jazz has that depth and body between the Bass and drums giving a great platform for Mile Davis trumpet solo on 'Kind of Blue'. I m really talking about separation of the instruments is it strength.
    
    Owning this reference combo is a joy to use and I can only highly recommend it if you take the plunge. A good friend who owns a Sony SCD 1 came round and we ended up listening to some music over a glass of wine! He remarked in his own words that it outperforms the SCD 1 CD playback and has a character all of its own.
    
    The combo really requires good speaker cables, interconnects which is why I think I may need to upgrade from Chorus 2 and Epic speaker cables. TOSLINK is a must.
    
    So to end this mini review I still recommend the R3 as that first step into the world of Sony reference players but the combo R1a and DAS 1a is the ultimate. The difference in wine terms is first(Combo) and second(R3) growths, Bordeaux of course.
    
    I may look out for a DAS 1 with the S1 chips as Axel has, what does everyone think?
    
    Still looking for some amplifier advice as I am currently running the super TA F808es.

    
    
    
    Gonfratulations, very nice combo.
    
    Let me help you a little bit with your new amps choice.
    
    As you have purchsed the combo 1a you should get the new amp to benefit from the sound quality 100%.
    
    In my opinion you should go for the amps with XLR balanced inputs hich provides the shortest direct path for signal from D/A section to amplification. Your current amp TA-F808ES does not have XLRs. My proposition is to try Sony TA-FA7ES, TA-FA777ES as well as TA-E90ES/TA-N90ES. Also these amps sounds much better than your current TA-F808ES.
    However, it is quit difficult to recommend on which amp suits you because I have no idea about your speakers.
    
    Of course, to buy the match series you can go for TA-E1/TA-N1. But on my point of view these combo does not provide very good value/for money being overevaluated.
    
    Also you ca have a look at another producers like Pioneer Exclusive. Beautiful amp is Pioneer A-09: Pure class A amplification, golden connectors and, of course, XLR inputs. You will not be dissapointed with this amp which could be compared to a good tube amp in sound section.
    
    If you decide to sell your TA-F808ES please do not hesitate to contact me.
    
    Regards

    
    
    Thanks for the advice will stay with SONY only, (building that vintage set) I really like the RCA sound and now have a chord signiture plus cable it sounds great. the TA F808ES is a great amp so I am not sure how great the improvement would be on the FA7ES as I have not heard one. My speakers 4x SONY SS A1L great speakers like the ROGERS LS3's - Anyone else.....AXEL?
  • #13
    
    stchedro
    16/07/11
    15H09
    Been using by DASR1a now for a few weeks. It is great now that I have solved the annoying and hard to find dry joint problem. But the sound, Oh the sound is amazing. Really amazing. Real rock solid stereo image and clean highs. I've never heard a stereo image like it. Much much much better than I remember the DASR1 which had a rather odd DSP setup that made it sound rather hard on the treble. Directly through the onboard volume control on the N902 it is amazing, I've also tried the E88/N7 combo and you do get real bass out of it. Now I've got to find out which pre sounds best E900, E901, E88 with which power. I have a feeling that I am going to enjoy messing around with this.
    
    The bass is punchy but at the same time totally laid back. You can feel the bass through the floor with drum rolls or low plucked double bass notes but it isn't in your face, it is matter of factly reported to the listener. Well recorded material sounds amazing, poorly recorded material is shredded and totally laid bare. But at the same time the R1a is easy to live with as you just feel you are getting a faithful report, if something doesn't sound quite right it is usually pretty clear what the problem is over panned or to much balance to a close mike (split stereo location is easy to hear).
    
    BTW the R1a sounds dreadful with Sonos and also with up-sampling via my MACBookPro but sounds amazing at straight 44.1 kHz.
  • #14
    
    Axel
    16/07/11
    16H15
    Six out of the eight of the Stereo Sound reviewers (JP) used a DAS-R1a at home until the late 90s.
    The same previously had a DAS-R1 :)
    And some even kept both !
  • #15
    
    mpd
    16/07/11
    17H50

    stchedro wrote:Been using by DASR1a now for a few weeks. It is great now that I have solved the annoying and hard to find dry joint problem.

    
    
    
    Stchedro Mine has the same problem it happens every so often, where did you find it? I am still serching mpd
• Sony CDP R3                             (9)last updated by virushaus - 03/11/2010, 21H24 Open this topic in TVK Talk
  • #1
    
    mpd
    09/09/10
    18H56
    Hi All,
    
    Just wanted to drop a line to tell everyone that a CDP R3 landed this week and have had this hooked up to my TA F808ES.
    
    All I can say is WOW!
    
    I didn't think there would be much difference in sound but boy was I
    wrong....
    
    The picture it paints when listening to music is so sublime, full and rich,
    details of music that I never heard before, slightly dark in character
    and the vocals are really amazing so present like they are there in front of you, I
    never heard my 4x SS A1L's
    sound better.
    
    Owning a x779es I thought this was good, but the x707es was better but
    not much, but this player's and its DAC is 10 times better than the x707es must be the 18 Bit Burr Brown 1702 that make the difference, along with the Mechanism  
    
    It surprised me did A/B testing using chorus 2 RCA interconnects and chorus Epic speaker cable and some good Redbook CD's.
    
    Mark
  • #2
    
    Axel
    10/09/10
    20H13
    mpd,
    
    Nice score
    Did you source it from Japan ?
    
    Owning a CDP-R1 / DAS-R1 combo, your listening result don't surprise me but for the fact that the CDP-R3 is older than both the CDP-X779ES and CDP-X707ES : 1989 !
    
    It is the d/a section and mechanism of the R3 which gave way to the Pulse-equipped X7s (45bit filter, SENS noise shaping, CXD2552Q and above) so I guess it is the execution and even beefier power-supply section that make it better than its non-R and later siblings...
    
    Post images here if you can - these R players are so magnificently built, they make everything else pale in comparison !
    (ok - but for the Luxman DP-07 / DA-07).
    
    a.
    
    (ps. you do have a spare laser block, do you ?)
  • #3
    
    mpd
    11/09/10
    20H42
    Thanks Axel,
    
    was sourced from Germany from a collector who rarely used it all, originally from Japan,
    
    Will post some pictures soon,
    
    Got a CDP R1a/DAS1a landing next week
    
    Will A/B that against the R3.
    
    The results surprised me too.
    
    I put the x707es back in the rack today just to double check and spun a few discs but the R3 is still so much better...
    
    Mark
  • #4
    
    mpd
    13/09/10
    22H45
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
  • #5
    
    Stoffie
    14/09/10
    10H24
    Makes me want one, all over again...
    
    Beautiful!
  • #6
    
    Axel
    14/09/10
    19H52
    Yes Mark, the laser is the KSS-151A or 151AR if it is (was) a later Sony Replacement part.
    
    I know these are getting expensive despite the fact they were used in many (many) Sony OEM drives (Teac VRDS-10, VRDS-20, Denon and others) but they are bound to get more expensive...
    Spare lasers are very rare items in Japan so if one pops up here in Europe or in the US... jump on the train fast if you can !
    
    
    Stoffie,
    You have an X777ES, right ?
    I sold my last one last month to cover TVK expenses... but the new owner couldn't believe how radically it slashed his VRDS-20 !
    The latter subsequently got sold very rapidly
  • #7
    
    mpd
    14/09/10
    20H50
    Hi Axel,
    
    Thanks for the info, understood, now on the hunt for a spare KSS 151A, anyone?
    
    Would like to say thank you to Axel for all the work you do and the site which has been amazing for all items SONY  
    
    I hope that everyone supports this site as I don't think Axel having to sell his X777es is fair, come on everyone let's support him and take a knobber pass. Only 25 euro fantastic value is what I say better than all those magazines. I shall be taking a knobber account.
    
    Stoffie thanks makes me want to get another one!
    
    Mark
  • #8
    
    Stoffie
    15/09/10
    08H13
    My CDP-X777ES has been sitting for the past year or so. I've been using my modded SCD-555ES, as my X777ES is a bit skippy on certain cd's, but only the first few tracks. I still have to have my mechanic check it out sometime, but haven't even been able to drive to the Netherlands to pick up my revised PS-X800 and TC-K8ES, they've been sitting there for two years now.   Shame on me, but I hardly have time to listen to music anymore, which sucks.
    
    I remember a KSS-151A popping up on eBay every now and then, so you could keep your eyes open on that auction site.
    
    If you have more awesome Sony stuff, please do show! Guess I should start posting some of my own gear too!
  • #9
    
    virushaus
    03/11/10
    21H24

    mpd wrote:Thanks for the info, understood, now on the hunt for a spare KSS 151A, anyone?
    

    
    here's one:
    
    http://cgi.ebay.de/Laser-SONY-KSS-151A-KSS151A-KSS-151-A-/190462645742?pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_Audio_Hi_Fi_CD_Player&hash=item2c587555ee#ht_2354wt_932
• Does anyone know who can repair a CDP-R1?                             (5)last updated by Axel - 26/06/2011, 22H40 Open this topic in TVK Talk
  • #1
    
    jshowalter
    26/06/11
    10H48
    We get skips and weird repeat-over-and-overs again. Perhaps the laser just needs to be cleaned. It would be a shame to abandon this incredible piece of technology, but if it's not going to read CDs, it's an expensive brick.
    
    Do you know someone who can inspect/repair this unit?
  • #2
    
    Axel
    26/06/11
    18H20
    Jim,
    
    Although your CDP-R1 is now twenty-two or -three years old, it may not necessarily be the laser itself causing the skips : servos and related power-supplies can also fail. Apparently, they often show their age before the laser.
    And that is repairable :)
    
    Was your unit used often and/or at length or irregularily and/or not for long ?
    Did the skipping appear suddenly or as a gradually increasing problem ?
  • #3
    
    jshowalter
    26/06/11
    19H33
    It's been a gradually increasing problem over the past five years or so.
    
    We used it every day for an hour or more since we got it new.
    
    Would Sony be able to repair it?
  • #4
    
    Axel
    26/06/11
    19H57
    Ah... mmm, this doesn't sound too good but still doesn't necessarily mean the laser is the the crux.
    
    Never mind Sony, it's been out in the woods on such matters since forever, be it about APM surrounds or spare CD lasers.
    You'll have to give your R1 to an experienced digital tech with the service manual and posts such as this one in mind (http://www.thevintageknob.org/tvk_talk/viewtopic.php?f=1501&t=1835) even if the latter applies to slightly more recent Sony CDPs.
    
    My own R1 still works great but I do fear the day it will start to wander around... So much so that I've decided to make half-year turns where the other half is put in music with a Philips CD104 :)
  • #5
    
    Axel
    26/06/11
    22H40
    jshowalter,
    Neither ilimzn or I are in California or even in the US of A.
    
    But there is one Knobber member here on TVK (Crossy, really in Austria) who might have a lead on people able to do such surgery.
    
    Otherwise, Stan_ at http://www.vintage-audio-laser.com could naturally work on an R1... but he's in France, like me.